...there's been so much stress lately with all of this happening, along with even more work and the like...
There probably won't be an update until Saturday, sorry.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 02:05:00

... Screw this, making a respec. With all the changes/planned changes, my character concept was/will be completely annihilated. Don't need the Origin String anymore, either. Although I suppose it'll be good for the sniper-support Siria will now be. Just. Fuck. Ugh.
My entire strategy would have been based around 1) Casting Duplicate 2) Having the clones cast Enchant: Fire on themselves and real-Siria 3) Barraging an enemy from range for mass damage. Guess it's moot now with the TemsFour changes. Fuck.
If these changes go into effect as they look now, I'm immediately respeccing to this:

Siria:
15 HP.
10 MP.
7 STR.
2 AGI.
1 INT.
1 SPC.
Put in the boosts yourself, this is the base. Don't care anymore.

Weapon: Rifle.
Skills: Zillycharm, Augmentation.
Equipment:
Helmet: Scanner
Armor: Frenzy Aura
Accessory: Origin String, if it's been cloned. If not, Healing Aura. Claiming String if it ever gets free/cloned.

Special Attack: Do Unto Others
Maxim 37: There is no overkill. There is only 'Open fire!' and 'I need to reload!'
SP: Balanced by Ire.
Fills by: Dealing damage, (1x the amount of damage dealt) sniping, (dealing damage at long range, i.e. an enemy at or farther than Range 5) (Multiplies SP gain from any other factors by 2.) killing an enemy (Flat gain of x10.)
For three turns, the limitation on reloading Siria's Rifle is removed. Alternatively, if she holds a weapon that doesn't need to be reloaded, she can attack twice with it.

I immediately respec to this, since the changes have hapened.

FEEDBACK:
Please don't destroy the Alchemiter. I like it. And I want some actual customization so we're not limited to premade stuff.
Please no feedback damage from TemsFour or limitation to only damaging spells. The clones are meant to be kinda disposable IMO, but they can't be if they do feedback damage. Also, I had an entire strategy based around synergy there... Well, HAD. I'm swapping it out if the clones get feedback damage, no non-damaging spells, or both. I like the range limitation and MP cost increase, though. The dodge removal... I'm ambivalent. On the one hand, it's the only defense the clones have. On the other hand, they're meant to be DISPOSABLE (imo).
Yeah, I like the level cap idea.
MP Regen Cap: Nice, I guess? No opinion, given I'm not a mage in this. ( :|( )
AUGH THE FUCKING ENEMY CHANGES. WHY. Annoyance is the one thing you don't want in any DTG ever. I have no idea what balance was like before this, but most of this... nah.
No idea on the rest.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 03:01:00

/null
Some of my opinions on stuff. The big one first.

Alchemiter:
Hm... perhaps instead of destroying the Alchemiter, maybe Ire could just be less careless with the things it does? It seems like a lot of people LIKE the alchemiter system (myself included), but, as we saw, it could be abused to a degree. If Ire were more careful with it, this wouldn't happen as often/at all, s*** like this wouldn't hit the fan so hard, and we could continue customizing our stuff. No offense intended, Ire.
Though if we do get rid of the alchemiter, we'll have to make do with what we can create from hand and with certain things. Like Teag's furnace and perhaps a metalwork station of sorts with the iron we got, and then we go from there.

Now, onto the subjects I care less for, if at all;
TemsFour:
I agree with Crystal; the clones were meant to be disposable. Them dealing damage to the summoner upon death makes the spell something people DON'T want to use. The rest of the changes are absolutely fine.

Summon:
Nice, more summon stuff! The lower dodge is fine.

General Skills:
Sure, I can get behind those changes.

Mana Regen Cap:
Um... sure, I guess?

Equipment:
While I agree that Bill's Cane's Providence should be nerfed, were some of the other nerfs REALLY necessary (including the ???'s Bow being nerfed a bit too hard for my tastes)?

Enemy Changes:
...Were some of these necessary AT ALL? Though I really don't have much of a solid ground on these types of things, were they?

Anyway, there's my take on the situation.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 06:26:00

((ohhhhh brother, powie's trying to host his own forum game in the same thread as a DTG game again. This time, in DTG0! Nobody ever learns their lessons, do they?!))

((I'M STILL BUTTHURT OVER GETTING MUTED WHAT MADE YOU THINK THAT SO FAST))

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 17:23:00

Counterpoint to some of that:

@Alchemiter: The Alchemiter's entire point is stuff Ire makes up on the spot. I hereby present as evidence that Ire is bad at this AND balancing at the same time: Spirit of the Night, which granted permanent flight AND Zillycharm, aka, the ability to camp in a wall forever without consequence. I would prefer kitbashing things together manually.

@Equipment: ???'s Bow is the gamebreaker even more so than Bill's Cane, because Bill's Cane was intended to be stored behind a MASSIVE paywall at the very least, making its power justifiable as we'd have to wait a long while to get it-or should have if not for the Annoying Dog. The problem is, as Generic proved, Generic had enough mana regeneration with the bow to basically cast Autorevive with little-to-no consequence, which basically meant that the biggest downside of the thing-that is to say, no standard healing-was automatically defeated by way of Generic not needing to care about dying at any point, because he would never run out of mana-barring, of course, Poison or Silence ruining his day. But it almost certainly wouldn't as whatever could ruin his day was dead before it got the chance. All because of that bow. The impending nerf is VERY heavy for good reason.

Meanwhile, the Infernal Torment was hardly nerfed (though I do agree with it in this case); Consider the fact it burns enemies on hit. Like, ACTUALLY consider that. Burn does 2-2 damage per turn and also inflicts -1 DMG. While, in burst, it isn't that good, its effective total damage at Range 2 (before any +DMG) is actually 10-11, and at range one that improves to 12-13, AND it makes the enemy attacks slightly weaker, AND it hits in splash. Now, admittently that isn't all at once, but that's perhaps because we're very focused on bursting down everything that gets in our path, which makes this seem weak by comparison-but it's not. This absolutely destroys mobs, as was the intention for the standard attack. (Of course, elemental weaknesses/resistances might screw her over, as will any enemy immune to burn, but those aren't the vast majority of enemies we'll be facing).

@Spell gameplay: OK, I've thought this over a bit. The way the system is set up, it REALLY encourages using spells as an emergency game-changing situation, making Mana a HOT commodity. However, Generics take on mage gameplay is exactly the opposite; any spell over 6 MP is 'risky to use' by his mark and the point is to spam spells. So...

I think the best way to make Pure Mage gameplay inviting without busting the game open is to (a) make spells MUCH more costly in MP (like, bump up most spells costs by +2 Mana), (b) make spells MUCH more powerful in effect from the get-go without INT investment, and the big one, © kick Mana Regeneration to the curb, by which I mean, eliminate it almost entirely. You buy potions, get high-end gear that provides like 1 MP regen, or actually buff up the one stat that, right now, no-one buffs up. That way, every spell is very hard to use but VERY dramatic in effect.

Here's how dramatic spells should be: A Fireball/Shock/Icebolt with +3 MP cost and +6 DMG at base (12-14). Note those values; a standard character with Fireball can now pull out effectively a Rifle shot whenever, wherever, but can only do it realistically once per battle. And that's without INT investment AT ALL. More examples: Ice Pillar starts off with 4 walls instead of 2 at Range 3 instead of 1, potentially making a surefire containment of a particuarily troublesome enemy by walling them in on every cardinal; Manaburn starts out being able to damage HP immediately (and doing +2 more on both fronts); buffs like Zillycharm and Revive casting in Splash 1; Mindcrush having +10 DMG on bosses/elites from its current value. Again, all without INT bonuses. WITH INT bonuses, the Mage, no matter his/her specialization, WILL make a bloody mess of everything. (On that note, given how big MP costs suddenly jumped to, I also slightly suggest +1 DMG to most pure Mage weapons so they aren't useless WHEN their MP inevitably runs out).

@Stat Issues: NumberSoup noted this, but I'll address it a bit more directly: HP values starting too high AND not rewarding enough. This is the OTHER reason why mages are so strong, as HP isn't nearly as glassy as it should be to start with-or anyone, really. If you wanted us to pump HP immediately so we didn't get 2-3 shot, then we really should have had 15 HP to start instead of 20. In exchange, however, have 1 Skill Point in HP count as either 1.5 HP per point, rounded down (meaning, 1 skill point is 1 HP, but 2 skill points is 3 HP) so the investment makes bigger returns over time.

AS for things I dislike: I agree, the disposability of the TemsFour clones is half of their strength, which is why I suggested the weakness being situational and small-if even existent. I personally feel the lack of support skills should merely be RESTRICTED to specific skills; Namely, no access to the high-end skills like Beam, Revive and Ice Pillar (as well as Summon skills, natch). Other skills should combo into it nicely IF the clones survive. I'm thinking more along the lines of Telekinesis, Enchant Weapon/Augment, and such and so on. I also feel that a few of the enemy changes are a bit excessive, as, oddly enough, my take on Tabletop RPG in general is that specialization is a definitive at the very least; a team of jacks will need two people to do what a specialist team would only need one person to do, allowing everyone else to do OTHER things and thereby clean up issues faster and more efficiently in most cases.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 17:26:00

>The above mage balancing ideas seem good. What do the others think, though?

>The alchimeter was a bad idea in general; I really DID like the concept of making fun, silly new gear, but as stated, I'm bad at balancing on the fly. Or in general, really. I'll probably balance the remaining gear, but still allow some sort of crafting; randomly bashing things together that are creative enough I guess.

>As for enemy buffs, I'll probably not do most of those. The Annoying Memory is still getting all of his buffs though because I don't think he fits his name enough yet.

>The HP mods seem good as well.

>How do Melee Skills factor into this? If we do perform the following changes, I feel that the Melee skills should stay the same; lower cost, lower effect, but still grant interesting options for melee users.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 17:44:00

Incredibly tentative ideas:
Tems4 clones get ~1/2 your MP and no mana discounts, which conveniently blocks off high level spells?? Also probably some portion of your HP, not deducted from yours.(Encourages HP increasing???)
Revive (and certain other buffs) can't self target. Too OP.(taken from others but yeah I agree)
Certain mage items lower max HP, increasing STR has minor HP buffs along the way??? Eh
Tems4 spawns in range 1 like what others said.
Tems4 clones die when the original dies. (Just throwing this out there.)
Other note: The reason I'm kind of iffy about using high cost spells is that I'm not too fond of using recovery items. Just a personal thing. Also because once a mage is out of MP it's a bit risky to meditate. And their basic attacks are kind of trash.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 19:29:00

[big][big][big][big]EVERYBODY!!![/big][/big][/big][/big]

TAKE THE DISCUSSION HERE!!
-thanks, the management.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 19:41:00

True on that case, Tazz. I like the kitbashing, cobbling things together from materials on hand. For example, adding a Zillywell, a weapon, and materials of some kind could give the weapon some sort of damage-through-walls mechanic - etc. Actually, I really like that.

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 19:45:00

what are these memes

Originally posted on 2016-02-19 19:50:00

[big]>THE BALANCE UPDATE[/big]

-Character Modifications
Base HP is now 15, and points applied to HP now count for 1.5 HP. Rounds down.
MP Regen now caps at 2, not counting the natural 1 MP Regen every player has.
The Stat Curve for AGI was slightly reworked. It now caps out at 50% Dodge, because...

-New Milestone bonuses for STR and AGI were added. INT's was also modified.
Just more incentive to tech into other stats. These bonus stats / abilities could be handy to a character!

STR:
+3 MHP at 4 STR
+1 AC at 8 STR
All Natural Minicrits are crits at 12 STR

AGI:
+1 Retreat at 4 AGI
Avoid First Attack at 8 AGI
Ignore Zones of Control at 12 AGI

INT:
+2 MMP at 4 INT
+1 Skill Damage at 8 INT
+1 Skillslot at 12 INT

-About 3 cubic gorillatons of SPELL CHANGES.
-As a general rule, most spells got a +2 in cost, and a good increase in power.

---

---

-Equipment (not weapon) Modifications:
Guardian Angel now only procs if 60 SP or more is used.
Temmie Ears now summon a Temmie Archer at the start of each fight.
The Sap Soaked Helmet and Enchanted Hatstack only have a 50% Chance to resist status effects.
???'s Bow now grants +6 MMP, 1 MP Regen, and +1 INT. Still has the "no HP restoration" downside.
The Regenerating Robes now grant an extra +2 MP on trying to perform Meditation. You get this bonus MP even if you fail. Still has other, old effects sans-not-moving-bonus thing. Also grants -1 MHP.
The Mana Orb now grants +6 MMP, compared to 4.
The Toreador Tophat can have a max of two Endoskeletons on the field at once.
The Charred Cowl now gives you a weakness to Ice.
The Chair Token now grants +5 MHP, as compared to 3.
The Chemistry Kit now creates Lesser Mana Vials, which restore 6 MP.
Removed the Alchemist's Mail, and added Hat Armor.
Still debating if I want to change Circlet / Healing Aura's MP Regen.

-Weapon Modifications:
Joy was dropped to (2-4) damage, compared to (3-4).
The Longsword's Whirlwind was increased to only -1 DMG, compared to -2.
The Staff, Laughing Staff, Voodoo Staff, and Wand have all been given +1 DMG. Not SPELL DAMAGE, but WEAPON DAMAGE. The Laughing Staff seems pretty okay now actually.
The Arm Cannon has only +2 Damage on charge compared to +4, but gains Splash 1.
Bill's Cane's Providence has been changed to ANY SPELL at +50% MP Cost. (barring unique spells like Foxfire and Glitch Manifestation.) This seems fine, given that to use Providence you need tons more MP now.
The Infernal Torment... doesn't get any nerfs. HUH.

-Shop Modifications:
The price of all weapons has dropped by 2. Weapons that have been already purchased once now only cost 2.
The price of all shop spells has dropped by 2 as well.
5 Gold has mysteriously appeared in the Gold Stash. C E L E B R A T E !

-Enemy Modifications:
The Annoying Memory is now actually annoying.
Regretful Memories now deal (2-5) MP Damage with their basic attacks.
The Golden Freddy Memory now deals (1-3) MP Damage with Scream Burst.
The Glitch Endoskeletons have learned Endo Laser, a weak long-ranged attack.
The Cha0s Hax0rs have learned Corrupt, which inflicts a random status effect on the target. Can be used through walls.
Natalie learned Snipe Redstone, which deals (4-5) damage, and can only target Redstone. Range 8. SHE KNOWS.
Lance learned Siphon, a basic single-target silence.
NoLegs learned Support, which uses a random consumable item on a target within Range 3.
Like a ton of foes made immune to Poison and Burn.

-Alchemiter Changes
W H A T
A L C H E M I T E R ?
(Sorry, but it had to go. It was the root of tons of problems in the balance of this game, and simply put a strain on me trying to work with it. All Build Grist has been converted to Gold, at 50 Grist -> 1 Gold, rounding up. All remaining Alchemiter-made gear still exists.)

Talist, please tell me how you want Foxfire to be modded; as a general rule, it'll have higher cost AND power.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 01:25:00

((Found this on the Main page, tile I1:

W H E N T H E S K Y F A L L S

I'm good at secret hunting guys))

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 15:22:00

When Ire was editing the summon stats, there was something about drinking water gives +3 HP. Is that for a summon? Can I haz?

Also, Wilson has been massively massively nerfed because I know have to re-summon Willow each time. That's 9 MP and a turn for each battle. Plus, I think the summon spell got nerfed even without that, and not just because of the lower dodge cap.

Time to get some more mathematical models to determine the optimum spread of HP V Dodge again. Spoiler alert, it's probably 50% dodge with everything else to HP.

Edit - And there's a thingy that looks like < 0 > at W 1027 in the character creation sheet and 190 X of the shop

Also, respec. I'd like to buy some True Mage Robes for Wilson, if nobody minds. Then de-equip the Tophat and Kitsune Charm, equip the Temmie Ears (4 ears now) and Spider Token for MAXIMUM SUMMON DAMAGE!!! Equip the True Mage Robes and learn Shock. Wilson is suddenly a summon based sniper because what I can do is use TemsFour, get 4 clones, then have each of them do a shock attack (9 INT) for (10-12 base + 4 + 2 + 2 /2) 9-10 at range 7 with a 50% stun chance. (does the half clone damage thing apply before or after all other buffs?) Pretty good considering I also get the Temmie Archer and Spider to back me up. And if I'm facing enemies with psychic/AOE attacks, I can summon Willow instead. Might be good to give her psychic resistance. Also, does burn stack? Because if it does, it would probably be better to grab Fireball instead of Shock. I mainly took Shock for the +1 range.

Also, I think it's hilarious how I've never put a point into HP, putting me in full squishy mage territory, but I've never died in this game.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 18:45:00

What I find funny is that I'm almost the same in durability post-update as I was pre-update.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 19:18:00

I AM the same durability. 25 hp -> 25.5 hp.

/nule.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 20:07:00

We'll let you have the True Mage Robes, Wilson. That being said, I'm pretty sure that it's after all boosts. Due to Cipher's thing going on, if that's happening we're gonna use the Free to get a Free Shield for NumberSoup. He's already claimed the Cipher Coupon for Taunt, so yeah.

Burn does not stack, but its duration CAN be extended, methinks. I'd still go Shock either way, as the last thing Wilson needs is to be anywhere near enemies, and the longer he can shoot from the better.

By the way: We're definitely selling the Dog at this point. Question is, what do we buy with it? Do we (A) get the Cane, (B) get the Thyme in the Tem Shop (the 20-gold purple flake), or © get a bunch of more mundane equipment to improve builds all-around? The Cane's usefulness speaks for itself; The Thyme and its powers can be REALLY useful (look at Ire); and of course, just getting everyone up to snuff with the new gear could be exactly what some of us need.

@Talist: That's apparently a symbol for the Chaos Butterfly, as Chaos Log 9 proves.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 21:00:00

Aaaaaand barring I missed anything, the BALANCE PATCH is done. I still need to go through all the characters in the Zones and fix them, as well as copy over a few new updated enemy stats, but that won't take long.

There's still time to suggest things, so feel free to do that! Also for the sake of my sanity...
[big][big][big]All previous posts from here to the last standard update have been nulled. Please repost anything that you want to happen.[/big][/big][/big]
The next update will be on Tuesday.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 22:25:00

First off, aah, Post 1500! by the power of noteworthy post numbers, I hereby demand these Zillywells (2 at least) to get in our inventory!

"Hrmph, stubborn little thing aren't you?" Roxxanne said to the well as if it was a living thing that could hear her. "Well so am I! Prepare to get moved!"

The next scene got...Weird. Roxxanne's shift from a rough lookalike of a preteen ("Heeeeeeey, I am not a preteen!" NO-ONE SAID YOU WERE) to basically what happened when you combined Hindu myth (namely lots of arms) with being every furry ever at once with being a Magical Girl. We'll not delve into it-that's the gist of it, really. The only thing that doesn't really cover is that (a) all the arms were different and her amount of tails and ears were roughly similar, and (b) she had wings, several in fact. Oh, and a cherry in her hair-probably some Trickster form to the uninformed (they were right, but it wasn't nearly all of it).

With this transformation complete, Roxxanne used an innate connection to those energies to shift the Zillywell-obstentially a pool of those energies harnessed in a non-madness inducing way-and start making it grow eight strong legs made of mint, making it get up, and forcing the thing to move-perhaps two, if force allotted. With that done, Roxxanne trotted along to the hangar bay, ignoring the space-time rift made by the two memory orbs to instead install the Zillywells directly into the ship at strategic positions.

Whatever DIDN'T move from this alone, Roxxanne opted to move with a more forceful method-that is to say, she pulled out a mad amount of shovels and pickaxes, enchanted similar to the first shovel she put out (though with many different materials), and struck the ground all around a Zillywell at once-digging, quite much more than before, and much more forcefully. When it was finally done, Roxxanne shoved all her hands in there (stretching them at angles that really suggested her limbs were more like tough taffy, or that is to say in ways that anatomically shoudln't be very possible to begin with), and thus shoved it over her head, and walked back to the area, ignoring the battle for now and installing them in her ship.

By the way: in case this works, I have positions (at least on my ship) on the shipbuilding document where 2 wells would be ideal for all angles. As I have them on our ship, we need weapons to have Range 4 or more to hit enemies in our little death halls, which is an issue if non-Rifle users have to take up position in those defensive positions.

Finally, because of our financial situation still needs to be addressed...We're definitely selling the Dog at this rate, but the real question is, what do we buy now? Bill's Cane, the Thyme, or just some generic stuff? WE already went over why the former is boss; the middle one is basically what's got Ire to be such a danger so that might come in handy when we fight him; and the last, well, just gets us up very good.

Oh, yes; slight respec here. I take away my one point in HP and exchange it with my two remaining skill points to nab an extra point in SPC. I want to go for the SPC build here. Because I don't want too much TemsFour, I'll take this time to temporarily hold onto Manaburn as well. I really want Neurotoxin (because of Debuff focus), as a side note, but I'm not 100% sure what our funds will be like shortly, and Manaburn is good for my role so I might not.

For NumberSoup's sake, I use the Cipher Coupon to take the Taunt tome, and then politely ask whoever purchases an actual purchase next to make sure the buy-one-get-one-free deal nets you a free Shield for him so he can get his full Tank Build.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 22:45:00

Respec:

Enchanted Hat Stack
Toxic Mail
Finale Amulet

Shadowstalker, at least until we can afford the Sheild

Thunderburst
Taunt

HP: 27
MP: 13
STR: 4
AGI: 3
INT: 4
SPC: 2

x1 Skill Point

Special: Tank God
Fills By: Damage Dealt, Damage Armoured Against (x3)
Effect: For three turns, +2 AC, and +50% of AC applies to incoming normally armour piercing attacks
Mods: -20 SP per 2 SPC, +1 AC per 2 INT, +1 AC per 2 STR, +25% AC for armour piercing attacks per 4 INT and STR
SP Needed: Up to Ire

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 22:52:00

Wait, we haven't sold this dog anymore? SELL.
I cram some wire bits into the Broken Steel Door, as well as the Broken Pulse Rifle.
This worked before, it should work again, right??? ...Okay, let's actually wire things up properly now... and done.
While I'm at it, I also try to glue some Smooth Round Stones together with a Green Orb to make a stone wall, then figure out how many empty jars we have.
I spawn in at D5, move to E4 and quickly use a Wide Beam to the right. I have learned nothing.

Originally posted on 2016-02-21 23:02:00