Minecraft Forums

Although whitecandle does have a point, a lot of the time we do have a
tendency to mistake long windedness for creativity. Short, but creative
posts don't get bonuses a lot of the time. Doing something to try and
encourage reducing the length of day-to-day posts would probably make it
so that updates wouldn't take as long.

I told that making long post is not more creative a very very very long time ago.(in the dtg 2 era)

However twinbuilder had no trouble updating and people did not cared about the fact it made posts longer to read while adding nothing to the game as a text you read(by opposition to what you experience while writing and reading the answers the gm makes as well as the eotb).

Now since the GM have trouble updating maybe he will reward more short creative posts by opposition to long posts and thus make the game better to read(because it will have a higher density of interesting stuff).

Is it okay if I post my turn during whilst Tazz is in the middle of a split update?

The most immediate and streamlining changes I personally think of, and of which tazz would.. probably disapprove of:

1. Allow focused posts to give doubled boosts and increments, given the general importance of charges.

2. Increase damage done by alchemies. Faster game, people don't have to make large posts, you don't have to check anything other than the level.

Quote from insert_generic_username»

The most immediate and streamlining changes I personally think of, and of which tazz would.. probably disapprove of:

1. Allow focused posts to give doubled boosts and increments, given the general importance of charges.

2. Increase damage done by alchemies. Faster game, people don't have to make large posts, you don't have to check anything other than the level.

Two problems: first, I will readily admit I am absolutely atrocious at actually remembering to apply focused unless someone reminds me, and second, I do not keep a comprehensive track of alchemies enough to reliably do this. I only vaguely recall levels at this point, partially because a comprehensive forge would require MORE time.

@Pionoplayer: As for the 1-post thing, Twin had actually debated on whether or not making the 3-post cap a thing in 2 would slow the game down. As we know, it didn't really, and his worries were unfounded. Plus, in a game where (quite frankly, and to my mild distaste) charges make the world go around, effectively DOUBLING the charge time in terms of TURNS by halving the amount of posts that can be taken (barring some serious tweaks to the system) definitely WILL cause issues. I felt 1 post per turn was sluggish during my time at both TvTropes games, unreasonably so. Plus, again, most of this is on MY end. Twin kept up with 3 posts near-daily without a break day. I feel like that's a ridiculously unreasonable standard to be held up to. Plus, in all honesty I didn't think that the speed of DTG2 was actually entirely good; if you wanted to be good at the game you had to basically rely on the BTs and COs, and I'm not returning them for the reason that it basically gave players that were far too lazy altogether too much power (not calling out names but you KNOW who you are).

No-one I have actually asked has said this was a good idea. If asked if the current state of affairs is worse than if we only had 1 post per turn even if the time between updates was HALVED they still said no.

I for one find that the charge time depends less on the posts per turn, and more on the amount of assists thrown around. Seriously, I'm really grateful that Uzi is handing me all those assists, they're pretty much one of the only things that lets me finish charges AT ALL. So, perhaps if focusing an action would result in being able to toss out more assists?

WARNING: Rants may or may not be a thing.

@Engie:
Exactly. In the Terraria session, the only reason I finished my 200-post charge (I kid you not, this was a thing) was because of assists. As such, in my opinion, halving the post counts doesn't really fall in that regard... and engie's solution to allow giving more assists for focused actions sounds decent enough to warrant consideration, so long as they write "focused" somewhere in big bold letters or something.

@Post Simplification/Reduction: If I had anything to say on this matter, I'd say the pace of updop time:post ratio will remain the exact same. While it may feel like a slow updop speed compared to DtG 2 (or even DtG:Terraria), remember that Tazz PROBABLY has a lot of stuff going on in his life that Twin, pre-falling-out Jon, and Crystal may have been able to work around somehow. At least a little bit. Or maybe it is, in fact, just the sheer complexity of the posts, as Tazz himself said.

And, to be honest, as I watch as these GINORMOUS posts pile up in the updates... just... I don't know how the average man can put up with this along with life. I have to agree with all those who desire simplified posts; this is just too much. Heck, the very first time I fell out of 0rigins was because of the crushing weight of some people's posts. It's intimidating, as people sometimes feel like they need to do so in order to impress, despite others telling them otherwise. It's a natural reaction for some. And, considering the sheer amount of flavorful, non-mechanical content in those posts, just laid out there in plain sight for all to see, I wonder why people don't use these magical things called spoilers for that stuff, so everyone doesn't have to read it. Is it the forum or something? 'Cause I have no clue what's going on. (And then I realized after trying to create a BBcode spoiler here that the system in place here is really, brutally flawed... so in that case just put headings over nameless spoilers and that should serve the same purpose... right?)

And just so we're clear; I mean no offense to anyone who has done/does this.

And while I may sound like a hypocrite right now thanks to the Terraria session, remember that even some of my longest attacks have mechanical flavor text to them. Minimal/No backstory or anything (that stuff was reserved for spoilers so nobody had to read it, and other stuff was reserved for OOC or in another thread, like the PvP thread) intertwined with the actual content, like most seem to be doing. For some reason.

So yeah, those who add non-mechanical flavor text may want to consider using spoilers for that stuff. Not that a single person is going to change that, is it?

Just my 2 cents.

@Whitecandle I'd like to see your towing plan in action.

I think part of the problem is that people like to post right after Tazz skeledops, which messes up his flow and can cause some grief when the dop has to be split, which is pretty frequent with the growing playerbase.

People really should refrain from doing that unless there is a specific reason they need to make a post for the next turn in advance. Same goes for nullposts, as that just causes horrible clutter in the thread that would serve better purpose here on The Forge.

Whelp. This is what happens when you get a game as complex as DTG, with a big player base, and a GM who does not have the time for this.

Boosting Alchemys does have some sense, provided levels are kept track of. Of course, we'd need someone else to keep track of them unless we want tazz to drown in even more work.

Quote from Bomber57»

I think part of the problem is that people like to post right after Tazz skeledops, which messes up his flow and can cause some grief when the dop has to be split, which is pretty frequent with the growing playerbase.

People really should refrain from doing that unless there is a specific reason they need to make a post for the next turn in advance. Same goes for nullposts, as that just causes horrible clutter in the thread that would serve better purpose here on The Forge.

OK, you know what? On waiting until the full resposnedop is up to make posts (because the split updates are a reality but the way I split them ensures the other half always has the EoTB now): this makes so much freaking sense that the only issue is that I'd have to complete splitdops fast enough as otherwise we're back to the annoying problem of nulling all pre-finished EoTBdop posts in a smaller form, but even then, I've got to say it to all of you. You people who post before the update even finishes? This was a thing as far back as DTG2, and Twin said it wasn't a good idea. I 100% agree with him on this, and I agree on this 1000% harder now. I would GREATLY APPRECIATE it if you could hold back on that, please and thank you.

It's late, so I'll answer other stuff now, but this stands out SO MUCH and would actually help make my life just a TINY bit easier that I'd appreciate it so hard. Please and thank you in advance.

I find it oddly humorous that UserZero kept a set of recordings on a tape. Cause, ya know. I did the exact same thing, over in a different roleplay, although under a different context.

Also, the fact that instead of the my memories existing on a physical tape, the tapes were instead just physical manifestations of my memories. You know what? After I lose my final life for this stage of the battle, I'll go digging around, see if I can get those tapes for y'allses viewing pleasure?

Yeah, if we've got a consensus that we want the game at two posts per round, then I can abide by that.

We still need to work on something so that we're not stuck at weekly rounds.

@engie: Sure, why not.

Quote from engie_ninja»

I find it oddly humorous that UserZero kept a set of recordings on a tape. Cause, ya know. I did the exact same thing, over in a different roleplay, although under a different context.

Also, the fact that instead of the my memories existing on a physical tape, the tapes were instead just physical manifestations of my memories. You know what? After I lose my final life for this stage of the battle, I'll go digging around, see if I can get those tapes for y'allses viewing pleasure?

I'd be glad to take them off your hands.

I think you have a slight obsession.

It's not an obsession. I just like VHS and Betamax...

I'd love to see your petty struggle through life and watch as it all becomes meaningless.

Anyway, a gift for Tazz.

Quote from engie_ninja»

I for one find that the charge time depends less on the posts per turn, and more on the amount of assists thrown around. Seriously, I'm really grateful that Uzi is handing me all those assists, they're pretty much one of the only things that lets me finish charges AT ALL. So, perhaps if focusing an action would result in being able to toss out more assists?

Again, I'll readily admit to my shortcomings in recalling to focus posts (I would suggest that if your post is focus-eligable that you state as much for sake of our combined sanity), but this may honestly help. I do want to slightly 'reward' posting twice so it may be +5 instead of +6, but we'll see about this.

Quote from DarkSideUltima»

WARNING: Rants may or may not be a thing.

@Engie:
Exactly. In the Terraria session, the only reason I finished my 200-post charge (I kid you not, this was a thing) was because of assists. As such, in my opinion, halving the post counts doesn't really fall in that regard... and engie's solution to allow giving more assists for focused actions sounds decent enough to warrant consideration, so long as they write "focused" somewhere in big bold letters or something.

@Post Simplification/Reduction: If I had anything to say on this matter, I'd say the pace of updop time:post ratio will remain the exact same. While it may feel like a slow updop speed compared to DtG 2 (or even DtG:Terraria), remember that Tazz PROBABLY has a lot of stuff going on in his life that Twin, pre-falling-out Jon, and Crystal may have been able to work around somehow. At least a little bit. Or maybe it is, in fact, just the sheer complexity of the posts, as Tazz himself said.

And, to be honest, as I watch as these GINORMOUS posts pile up in the updates... just... I don't know how the average man can put up with this along with life. I have to agree with all those who desire simplified posts; this is just too much. Heck, the very first time I fell out of 0rigins was because of the crushing weight of some people's posts. It's intimidating, as people sometimes feel like they need to do so in order to impress, despite others telling them otherwise. It's a natural reaction for some. And, considering the sheer amount of flavorful, non-mechanical content in those posts, just laid out there in plain sight for all to see, I wonder why people don't use these magical things called spoilers for that stuff, so everyone doesn't have to read it. Is it the forum or something? 'Cause I have no clue what's going on. (And then I realized after trying to create a BBcode spoiler here that the system in place here is really, brutally flawed... so in that case just put headings over nameless spoilers and that should serve the same purpose... right?)

And just so we're clear; I mean no offense to anyone who has done/does this.

And while I may sound like a hypocrite right now thanks to the Terraria session, remember that even some of my longest attacks have mechanical flavor text to them. Minimal/No backstory or anything (that stuff was reserved for spoilers so nobody had to read it, and other stuff was reserved for OOC or in another thread, like the PvP thread) intertwined with the actual content, like most seem to be doing. For some reason.

So yeah, those who add non-mechanical flavor text may want to consider using spoilers for that stuff. Not that a single person is going to change that, is it?

Just my 2 cents.

@Whitecandle I'd like to see your towing plan in action.

On the one hand, it's the technical difficulty and time put into some of these posts that gets them such high damage rewards and I cannot ignore that...But on the other hand, I do agree, the big posts are seriously intimidating to newcomers and I repetitively state to newcomers who have asked about this that they're totally unnecessary to play the game (or even play it well) and that people should just go within their comfort range for this. I can't genuinely ask for people to simplify their posts, mind, as that's kind of contradictory to how the game's damage works, but that's still something to point out; there IS a soft cap and i would rather that the effort for it be lower than what people have had it at.

As for RP, I WOULD follow through and ask RP to be in spoilers, BUT that would still not do a thing for actually shortening post length by MC's character limit and I have declared that RP is important enough to not only warrant damage boosting even if it's unrelated to the attack, but also important enough to directly screw with on occasion as a GM (IE what happened with your pick)-though it's hard to find a short, yet creative action these days for exactly these reasons. The latter, meanwhile, is simply because people care enough about their RP that I can get interesting reactions and situations by tilting odds.

Quote from battlefury13»

Whelp. This is what happens when you get a game as complex as DTG, with a big player base, and a GM who does not have the time for this.

Boosting Alchemys does have some sense, provided levels are kept track of. Of course, we'd need someone else to keep track of them unless we want tazz to drown in even more work.

I kind of feel it's ridiculous for players to not keep track of their alchemies, and both times I have had access to alchemies in-game I have kept extensive track of their levels. I have no time to keep a forge thread on-track, I don't think Twin ever REALLY did himself, ect. It may just be wise to list level alongside alchemy when using it for the sake of making SURE I understand (which is like 2-4 characters extra, six if you count spaces).

I HAVE been considering bringing back a 2-esque 'floor' system for Alchemies, on the restriction that you're liable to MISS if you try to just say 'I fire ultramarine' or something cheap and one-liney like that ALL the time. That was honestly a problem to itself in DTG2, as Twin considered it pretty cheaty to have such quick damage on tap rather than the intended creativity. Of course, people have bad days and short time, so I get the need for it, but I don't want people spamming it as their only offensive they even bother with.

Quote from The_Nonexistent_Tazz»

I HAVE been considering bringing back a 2-esque 'floor' system for Alchemies, on the restriction that you're liable to MISS if you try to just say 'I fire ultramarine' or something cheap and one-liney like that ALL the time. That was honestly a problem to itself in DTG2, as Twin considered it pretty cheaty to have such quick damage on tap rather than the intended creativity. Of course, people have bad days and short time, so I get the need for it, but I don't want people spamming it as their only offensive they even bother with.

Makes sense.

We could have alchemy effectiveness scale with creativity and usage, with level providing a boost to the scale, at the cost of an uncreative attack with a high-level alchemy being very ineffective in an uncreative attack compared to say, a level two.

I just realized that the Incredibly Stupid AI has a huge anti-synergy with the Diner field effect.

Oh dear.

Also, THRONE CONTEST HAS BEEN CHAIR'D. OR SOMETHING.

h

In regards to alchemies, on tap damage and creativity, I think you should encourage more mechanical versus roleplay creativity in order to shorten posts. As a newcomer reading about Destroy the Godmodder on TV Tropes DtG felt to me like Calvinball, where if you need an edge you make a new rule or appropriate something from another game or abuse a trope to your own advantage. I feel like instead of offering damage boosts for roleplay (I honestly haven't read any RP/flavor so far in either of the updates that have been posted since I joined) you would be better served offering leniency for mechanical experimentation, e.g. someone does something or adds something to the game that hasn't been done before and you reward them based on novelty rather than 'advancing the plot', like, say, making it easier/faster to craft a creative alchemy (Boxing Glove Toy && Reanimated Severed Hand of Garrett = Pickpocket Extender or Soviet Piston Boots && Giant Nutcracker = Pneumatic Ball Buster versus High Damage Longsword && Piercing Knife = Boring Endgame Weapon) or giving extra efficacy to the created item. If it ends up being over-used then just say 'it broke' or allow it to stand so people develop a counter.

I personally find it WAYYYYY easier to write RP than attack descriptions. For the later, I tend to just run out of stuff to say after a paragraph or two.

Oh yeah, and you can prevent something from showing up in Tazz's post if you put it in quotes,

like this.

If you quote this message, the part that's already in quotes disappears. And you do that by typing in:

[.quote] -Stuff- [/quote]

But without the period, of course. We should probably be doing that for our alchemy lists at least.

I feel like damage is a boring way to go about this, y'know? If you're putting great effort into a roleplay that culminates in "I do lotsa damage" you're not doing the forum game justice, even if you write half a page of roleplay to justify your attack. I'd rather see people doing stuff like debuffs and passives and battlefield modifiers to try and gain mechanical control over the field rather than writing long roleplays to do extra damage. Like, extra damage should come about because someone summoned Fluffy Wumpums that give enemies stacks of Bad Juju for killing them then getting hit with the Hammer of Furry Justice that deals 1+10000*Bad Juju stacks damage. I couldn't care less if your Squirrel Sniper does fifty triple backflips and blows the guy's right eye out, I want a reason to read your post because whatever you did effects me. Maybe I'll hold onto my battlefield wide nuke now because you've got Fluffy Wumpums, or maybe I can't use my nuke because Everyone Loves Bob Ross.

Just my two cents from a newbie perspective.

Quote from Canon_Whitecandle»

I feel like damage is a boring way to go about this, y'know? If you're putting great effort into a roleplay that culminates in "I do lotsa damage" you're not doing the forum game justice, even if you write half a page of roleplay to justify your attack. I'd rather see people doing stuff like debuffs and passives and battlefield modifiers to try and gain mechanical control over the field rather than writing long roleplays to do extra damage. Like, extra damage should come about because someone summoned Fluffy Wumpums that give enemies stacks of Bad Juju for killing them then getting hit with the Hammer of Furry Justice that deals 1+10000*Bad Juju stacks damage. I couldn't care less if your Squirrel Sniper does fifty triple backflips and blows the guy's right eye out, I want a reason to read your post because whatever you did effects me. Maybe I'll hold onto my battlefield wide nuke now because you've got Fluffy Wumpums, or maybe I can't use my nuke because Everyone Loves Bob Ross.

Just my two cents from a newbie perspective.

You are changing my worldview and I like it. PLEASE stay. Granted, in Talist's case he has a passive that gives him straight damage anyways, and while I support being TACTICALLY creative as well, people have to actually attempt to inflict status conditions, which historically aren't 100% even with the best posts. (I could try to slip them in if I see a reasonable status condition; referencing to bleeding inflicting bleed, ect). Plus, most people tend to get bigger attack descriptions anyways than RP like Talist, and I'm pretty much the only other person who does this (on another forum, mind).

As for mechanical exploration, people aren't exactly open to that, not because it isn't terribly valid; indeed, a good variation on this makes me REALLY happy. Problem is (a) most of it is in the form of one-post actions that honestly do not deserve to change the flow of the battle (and most things good enough TO do so are generally attacks aimed at others anyways, or charges), and (b) because most of it comes from rather...Infamous sources. I won't name names and I don't think this kind of thing is wrong, but they're pretty bad about trying to use that to basically ONLY press an obnoxiously large advantage whenever possible, or just something obnoxious to everyone. In other words, while mechanically interesting, they also seriously stall out the actual game itself, and time is an issue that is pressing.

What I'm hoping for here is stuff like the Everydimensional Portal in 2, which summoned new entities every-so-often for all three factions in DTG2, or stuff that changes the battlefield's distances, or stuff as simple as the Diner (double charge rate), stuff that doesn't just do stuff to other entities but screws with the very foundations of the game. THAT is what I think is mechanical creativity, or what I'd want to see in it at least. People are OBSESSED with damage in this game, for good or for ill, and I want to change that, but really I cannot unless THEY do so or present an opportunity worthy of it.

Nevertheless, we seriously need people to push against boundaries like that more often and no-one gives them credit when they actually succeed. I can credit the sheer creation of the GS faction as the greatest moment in the game for me, just for that madness. An entire FACTION from nothing! (Granted, I asked for people to join for a reason, and I probably will not do that again as at that point it's starting to just stretch too much, you know?)