The gravity is 0 for me since it is a forum game and that I do not care about my character with absolutely no personality and with a back story of maybe 5 lines.
So you believe you have the right to ruin literally everybody else's experience?
Exactly it is why I am called nulitor and that I willing-fully kept the rank newbie(even through the forum automatically change your rank when you gain higher ranks) and that my avatars are always drawn in the worst way possible.
Have you heard of a particular Alfred Nobel? Perhaps his story will be able to make you see some sense.
There was a man, once, named Alfred Nobel. His brother, Emil, died in an explosives-related accident. When he then invented Dynamite, a substance far safer than the conventional Nitroglycerin explosives, he imagined it being used for peaceful things, such as mining, and if I recall correctly, plant fertilizer. Then, in 1888, some newspaper erroneously thought he had died, and declared that the "Merchant of death is dead", condemning him for inventing the safer explosive. Think about that for a second.
His brother died in an explosion.
He invented a safer explosive to prevent that sort of accident.
People then used his safer explosive to kill other people in explosions.
Do you think he intended to get more people killed in explosions?
Do you think he intended to be declared a "Merchant of death"?
Do you think he intended for all of that to happen?
NO
HE DIDN'T
OR ELSE THE NOBEL PRIZE WOULD NOT EXIST
Just because the option is there for you to end the game, does not mean the creator of the game wants you to take that option. Furthermore, at least two people have shown their objections towards you trying to get a bad ending, and I have no doubt that many other people don't want DTG0 to end early, just because of your selfish desire to see it all go wrong.
If you do a rule that says that there is 1% chance of X happening then it means that X can happen and if you do not want it to happen then you can just add a rule which makes it can not happen and then add another if someone achieve to bypass the protection and refuse people from doing it since you are a GM and have ALL the powers.
If the inventor of dynamite had all the powers he would have invented right after his explosives a way to prevent them from hurting people or damaging properties of other humans and then he would have invented a way to stop wars.
Sigh. Honestly I think I'm just gonna leave this off with a few points.
1. We could probably push for the Terraria session's canonization, and leave, in the event that everything goes south.
2. Nobody here is likely to care about the game after a 1 is rolled, it's just throwing everything out the window even more than things have been getting thrown out(a trickle relative to this).
3. Why do we even need a bigger bad. This is excessive. Nobody wanted a bad bigger than the literal forces of the plot.
I'll say this on the paradox thing: A, I pretty much said anything could happen ALREADY and I've explained the mechanics. I am merely expositing the dangers so some idiot DOESN'T make it happen because they didn't know and should avoid it. Really, at this stage the idea of an absurdly low roll ending existence should have been the expectation at this rate.
B, The Paradox Rolls are designed to explicitly make you pay for doing something that ridiculously dumb. For most, it wouldn't be justification to make them stop playing the game, so I 'only' kill off their current RP characters and then doom existence, which still makes them feel horrible. So basically, it would punish people who think gambling for the Chibi-Serena Statue is a good idea, and obliterate the idea from HIGH orbit that you had any chance against fighting off your 'mistake' by making it stronger than the strongest beings you have to ally against (or rather, make its powerset such that fighting it at all, even for the most powerful beings you have, a ridiculous idea at best). Reasonable(ish) to prevent gamblers going nutzo over it-make the punishments just as likely as the rewards, but make the punishments far worse. Not the smoothest system but when anything can happen...
Also, I will say this: If it happens, the end of the world thing may or may not be a thing depending on circumstances, and it's DEFINITELY not immediate. If an entity rolls it while being dumb, all that means is that Entity is going to find itself a nonexistent entity very swiftly, and then the resulting 'bigger bad' will just shove off and not actually bother anyone enough to warrant a position in story from then-on.
For people like Nulitor, however, who don't care for their fellow players and/or the story enough to give that much pause, I give a different treatment. I skip that bit to straight-up ban them instead in the form of a 'paradox roll' (by which I mean I deliberately load dice to have an excuse to ban them for the destructive behavior). Nulitor, as it stands your intentions ALONE will probably get you banned from this game in a heartbeat. Outright BANNED. If you do that, and succeed, I'll just kill you and ban you on the spot (and skip ; if you keep doing it even if you dont' get a 1, you'll roll a number that isn't a 1 and yet is low enough to get you banned, and I will ban you. Either way, you doom existence because you feel like ending the game fast and I will make you pay for it. The rule is to be avoided at all costs. I put it in there as discouragement to rolling Paradoxes EVER (as clearly you saw what happens when a low roll happens...You just happened to benefit from it), AT ALL, FOR ANY REASON (except MAYBE, MAYBE, MAYBE the most dire reason you could possibly think of-LITERALLY, it's either a lucky roll or existence explodes or something THAT dire); IF such discouragement must be changed, I can certainly do so, and will in a heartbeat.
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Wait, what? Tazz, why do you seem so defensive about the lore of DTG even in things that are spin offs? You wanted me to make it impossible for UserZero and Richard to ever team, so I had to code in an exception even though that happening in my little Java program would mean nothing to the actual story. Why do you have such a long post with so many capitals and italics explaining why a clearly spin off non canon story wouldn't work? You even say "I'd officially end the game there as you just up-front defied the plot[/b] and won." and also talk about this "the Black", who just sounds like power creep. Why do those sound like threats? Maybe it's just that I feel like DTG never needed an official plot and that makes it easier for people to make their own, but I think that if it's not under a GM, literally anything can go. Richard has been one shotted several times in my Hunger Games, usually by random stuff like licking his elbow. Also, in my Games, Richard and UserZero can't team with each other unless it glitches, but I left in a case where they get shipped. And I don't want to remove it.
I'm sorry if I've totally misunderstood you, but it feels like you're trying to enforce the rules of DTG even when they really shouldn't be enforced.
If you're wondering about my statement about power creep, feels like we've always just had to establish bigger and badder threats out of nowhere to get that feeling of fighting the eldritch horror. But it has already happened so many times... Richard wasn't enough, so then the big bag became Scratch, then English, then Binary, then Psi-Scratch, then the Red Dragon, then the Employer, then the Conflict in general, then finally the Shadow. It has happened so much and each time it's like 'no, this is 100% the REAL deal'. ... And it's not. Feels like just infinity+n level bad guys each time out of nowhere.
Edit-like-thing: I started this post yesterday night shortly after Tazz's first post where he seemingly struck down Piono's idea. However, then I got sick for the rest of the day. Now I have to say, why are you threatening Nulitor? You seem to want every action to make sense in the DTG 'lore' so much that you tell people how to break reality, but threaten them not to do it. Why can't you just say 'nothing happened' or 'you are not strong enough to activate this' whenever someone tries something like that? Why do you have to say "Nulitor, as it stands your intentions ALONE will probably get you banned from this game in a heartbeat. Outright BANNED". Why? It makes no sense to me...
So every time a paradox happens, its a 1 in 10000 chance of game over? I hope the timeline shunt (which should make this the new main timeline if I manage to take down Richard) I was promised actually occurs, or there would be a 1/10000 chance this was all for naught.
Okay tazz, the reason why I put Eternis after the agents of the Conflict is because The Red Dragon was stated to be the most powerful (MAYBE weaker than The Shadow, but even then, that brings up other issues). Engie is stronger than it by a fair margin (as comparing engie being able to just CONSUME entire universes and having the Mainframe) while Eternis was established as being many times stronger than engie, barring his entry to a section of the Void with passive defenses. He is the physical incarnation of infinity, and measuring that power in terms of the turrets is sort of problematic because the Chuck Norris Turret, the single most powerful turret ever, was only equal to Chuck Norris until upgraded, and that's WITH the advantage of being specifically designed to fight him. The Shadow is roughly equal in power to the Secret of the Void, who in turn stronger than the anti-chuck norris turret, which, as we have already explored in DTG2, is weaker than The Incarnate, which, running under the power of the Red Dragon, fails to be stronger than Engie.
Additionally, Project Binary went down to an attack that failed to kill Lord English, even weakened. Eternis is, well, to put it extremely mildly, MUCH more powerful than him. Comparing things by how they actually worked in game, Eternis is strong enough that, with the full backing of both the Narrative and the Conflict, he would far surpass the entire group of the Agents of Conflict and Agents of the Narrative together.
This is just talking Eternis. Admittedly, right now, the fight between the OP King and the agents of the Conflict would be fairly even, since neither the Conflict nor the Narrative want him running around (given that he almost blew the War of the Dark Carnival into a paradox powerful enough to instantly unleash Black at his full strength) and the seals keep him at GREATLY reduced power. In terms of raw power without anyone interfering, he’s slightly stronger than Eternis right now, but he’s greatly limited by the Narrative and Conflict in terms of directly interacting with things.
Anyways, I’m arguing this for a reason, not just to argue. We all agreed near the end of DTG2 that we SERIOUSLY had to stop the power creep. I can’t retcon the OP King OR the Author without a crap-ton of extra bother that I don’t have time for as of right now, and I’m not going to hand it over to anyone else, because that would most likely end up invalidating important parts of my backstories, and for reasons mentioned with Engie, I just flat out CAN’T lower Eternis’s power level anymore, since he’s already been established to be beyond even the power scale of universe eaters.
I have the OP King and the Author set in chains to keep them from wreaking havoc on the plot, and Eternis… I’ll figure out something for him eventually. It hasn’t really seemed urgent since the Narrative and Conflict both possess enough power to deal with him should it become necessary.
But even below that, Engie and Unity are top-tier characters, and intended to remain that way. We’ve had way too much power scale inflation (probably mainly my fault, I will admit to that) already, we need to try and keep the power scale down to reasonable levels as much as is possible at this point.
Hence the reason why the OP King and Eternis won't be making appearances in any game in the near future. (as in, none of the ones that are currently canonical)
As for Black... well, I think I'll leave that alone. If twin and TT2000 are okay with it, I don't have any issues with it, since it gives us a reason for WHY paradoxes are so terrible, even if I don’t like introducing another stupidly overpowered character.
And as for the paradox scale… I’d like to state that I don’t really like the Chibi-Serena Statue instantly giving you full control over canon, I mean, you probably won’t abuse it, but it still makes me uncomfortable.
As to pit and FBSN, those are both really good ideas, I like the dialogue, and most of the attacks, bar the completely impossible to avoid ones. (FBSN, the Off Waves are dodgeable in Smash Bros, and instantly setting their health to 1 outside of those very final fights just doesn’t make sense to me.)
Oh, and ire. making the terraria session canonical is a bad reason for the same reason why I say we should leave Eternis up there as "If you're anywhere near as powerful as this guy, you've done something wrong."
First off (Piono and Talist) Can I just say the Paradox thing was merely a minor thing for the most part? Most players won't do this deliberately, and those who do are bound to not affect you because they only care for themselves. This is practically theoretical-if not ACTUALLY theoretical. For this reason, the Black is non-canon until the hyper-unlikely roll that I'm deliberately trying to make sure doesn't happen because of some jerks. On that note: I WILL say the Black's theoretical abilities are NOT supposed to be power creep: They're more accurately designed that his particular abilities make almost any method of killing him impossible while him killing you is extremely likely...And almost nothing else. I won't specify what that exactly means.
2nd (Talist, kind of Piono): I admit that I am being overly-sensitive about the canon wholly. I also admit that the power scale is out of control...Which is EXACTLYWHY I'm so sensetive about it. All the power levels soaring up to infinity is just dumb, Talist you are dead right, so I'm starting to get...Antsy about anything about that and trying to solidify canon power levels and then crunch them together so that the power scale is not just more believable, but also closer together so we can feasibly have the Godmodder take on some of these monstrosities in head-on combat.
To clarify, the power levels go something like this: The Black Monolith (Word of Twin says it's the only legitimately omnipotent thing in existence and could erase the Conflict and Narrative from existence if it would destroy reality in the process to do so...It's just ultra-passive, so thank goodness for that for once), the Conflict at full power, the Narrative, the current state of the Conflict, <MASSIVE GAP OF POWER INSERTED HERE>, Secret of the Void (CREATED the Void and thus most of the DTG world as we know it, and would have out-powered the Shadow if not for a pair of snakes), The Shadow/Red Dragon/The Few (all roughly equal in my mind: The Red Dragon didn't instantly obliterate the Universe for the same reason Engie couldn't do so at all, the lovely OP Scale...And he was empowering the Incarnate AT THE SAME TIME, and Engie couldn't even eat all of it, just part, and this is all after being freshly uncanned and consistently nerfed by Talist;), The Author, Project Binary full-power, The Employer/Full-power Binary Prime, the OP King, Binary Prime in his DTG0 state, the OP King in his post-DTG2 state, <Small gap of power>, Eternis, Full-power Engie/Psi (Bit shaky on this much, but Psi-Scratch DID kill Engie off along with everyone else...With the Disc and the Fez. I'm putting them as equal here just to show they're close enough), Omega-Plus Godmodders, Fast Eddy in TvTropes, Notch in Minecraft/Unity (if fully united), the rest of the Godmodding ranks in the obvious order, Herobrine/Arch-Sues/First Guardians (between Alpha Plus and Alpha in terms of raw power-also I am referecing Terraria for the Arch-Sues and Mary Sues in general, but they're (ironically) an interesting concept for DTG given the setting and wouldn't inherently obliterate canon), non-Arch sues/Alpha-rank godmodders/Descendants when fighting Omega-Plus Godmodders/Ancestors, Wilson/The UOSS/Any other given high-power high-relevance entity who wasn't already mentioned, and then most everything else. This doesn't include a few others that aren't explicitly characters (IE the First Block and the Disc of Mojang) or some characters during some situations (The Incarnate, Godmodder Soul, Red-Dragon Richard), and definiitely didn't add characters I couldn't get a bead on (The Oracle of the Void), but really this gives a sense of position for everything as far as I can tell, and I'm reasonably unbiased.
JUST from the size of that list, and that's just everything tying with the descendants and above and the bit immediately below it, do you think I have a SMALL reason to make sure this keeps under a semblance of control? Much less the fact that the LOWEST tier on that list with actual names on it includes the almighty UOSS, which chewed through entities like paper? And that I rank Wilson, the fox that you (Talist) deliberately left somewhat under-powered compared to the actual descendants in a sense, EQUAL to the UOSS? One of my minor goals for DTG0 is to improve the power of Omega-Pluses explicitly so that I can justify bringing them, the other godmodders AND the Descendants by proxy up enough that some of those guys AREN'T nigh-invincible-looking and make the idea of the Godmodder being the ACTUAL biggest threat in existence look legitimate. Ignoring that, one OTHER thing I'm going to do is that, with anything I intend to introduce (meaning The Black and the Chibi-Serena Statue do not count, though putting the Black on there would be kind of harder than you realize), it won't proceed <small gap in power> with exactly one exception. Indeed, I think the <small gap in power> area is the power level we shouldn't breach for a standard in player-controlled characters, and if it happens, it should NOT be done lightly.
3rd (Talist): I told people what would happen as a DISCLAIMER and a reason WHY you should NOT roll paradoxes. I didn't tell people DO it, in fact, that was pretty much the opposite of what I intended. People doing it carelessly (IE TwinBuilder during the Uncle Grandpa summon) could roll the dreaded one, and cue the jerk swooping in and everyone going into rage mode at me because that wasn't obvious enough with this. That and I already said pretty much that on the memo already, so I needed to get that out to the public. No fair to be exclusive, after all. Of course, when Nulitor swooped in to start saying he'd roll paradoxes explicitly to get a 1 to 'speed up' the game (and an argument broke out because of it) you bet your bottom dollar that I had a reason to step in and set in straight what I intended. After all, if he actually did it, that would basically ruin the game for everyone for his own 'amusement' as that basically means everyone's going to die at the end of the game after potentially WINNING, ruining the whole thing, basically the highest form of Trolling possible. THAT is ban-worthy in my opinion (possibly even from the whole forums), and I needed to get that clear. That's not to say I don't like seeing the occasional high/low Paradox roll to screw with game dynamics, but I certainly do NOT like it when people are out to screw everyone over in the process for something that could barley even be called their amusement.
4th (Piono): Can I just go out of my way to say this? Most of them going beyond the <small gap in power> DO in fact fall under Too Strong to Live, even by DTG's absurd power standards and despite the fact most of them are Orcus On Their Thrones or Sealed Evil in a Can in their own ways. Not just your own, but several of the others as well. I think only ONE or two of them at that level is appropriate for bigger bads. It's to the point where, if I can find a legitimate excuse to kill off most of them (and all things considered with enough charge/a specific paradox roll I realistically could without retconning them), I would do so without hesitation despite their lack of direct impact. That is how bad it's gotten. It's a situation that I don't want to add fire to at this point. Eternis is lower than your expectations for a reason (outside of the ones I already gave in proving the Red Dragon is incredibly powerful): This game has broken the concept of infinity that badly. Step back and appreciate how bad it is. I again state that anything above <small gap in power> is probably too powerful for this game in such massive amounts.
Keep in mind this is ALL with the existence of the OP Scale. Piono, the OP Scale does NOT in fact justify the existence of those things on the basis that 'the Narrative will stop them.' This is without the Narrative/Conflict intervention going on for the most part. It's still that bad. And this is discounting ALL metapowers, aka the powers that screw with other powers, that a few of us have. If there was ever a reason to canonize Terraria, it's because the higher player power equates to a stronger Godmodder, meaning the power levels are pushed up, meaning my previously-stated goal of getting the Omega-Plus Godmodders stronger in relationship to everything else is furthered.
I do agree that if people reach Eternis-level power, something's gone wrong. Going beyond that is probably where I'll start having to nope them for power level scaling.
Also, yeah I would be concerned about that as well-as such it will only ever be explicitly to do exactly what I said and nothing else. it might not be taking the form of CSS for those reasons (definitely will if Generic rolls it, but only for brick joke potential on the fact he 'made' one so early on), but whatever happens it will certainly be extremely beneficial for whoever rolled it (not like I support Paradox rolls constantly. I put in the 1 result to prevent reckless gambling.)
While I'd hate to be that guy, I do have to mention that, actually... I never have gone full power, with the exception of the one time the OP Scale let me do it because I was doing it in a comb rave, and even then that was heavily nerfed, as proven by the Incarnate being... somewhat smaller than an entire universe. I'd also like to point out that, because Limbo wasn't immediately filled up with a fatass Metal/Crystal Universe Eater body directly after PsiScratch went and killed the peoples, that means it's safe to assume he didn't kill all of me.
Limbo is (probably) an infinite plane, and dialogue suggested other Universe Eaters were in it. And a lot of them at that. It's safe to say you probably could fit ALL of you in there if the need arose-ain't arguing those points, I could see it going either way for a lot of reasons with no real 'tie' outcome feasible, which is why I put you equal to Psi. But see, that's really just putting it into perspective more than anything. By all standards in any other canon you would basically be the strongest being alive no-doubts even with the OP Scale tying you down. Eternis is several times stronger than you (or at least, the concept of infintity could be forced to a recently-devoured meal, causing you to explode and die of overeating)...And THAT guy is the absolute maximum of what I consider a 'non-canon breaking' character that won't need actual nerfs beyond the OP scale.
Just step back and look at the madness that is DTG from that statement alone.
I won't argue about Limbo being too small, but... remember how, while in Limbo, we were all pretty much interacting with each other all the same, blah blah blah usual business pick a random flower?
Yeah, kinda hard to do that if there's a size discrepancy. It'd make more sense if just a part of me ended up in limbo and the rest was like, "...Uh, guys? Where the hell did that shard that went to Godcraft go?" from an interaction standpoint.
SCP-2317 is probably somewhere in the power scales, but no one knows where (right now he is just eating whatever low-level godmodders he can eat outside the scope of the battle), and he is unlikely to show up again anyways.
After two weeks of writing, or rather, a week and a half of doing nothing and a few days of quite a bit of writing, the second chapter of Insurrection is complete.
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I guess my point is why do there need to even be these so called 'paradox rolls'? What point do they serve? Why can't we just say "it doesn't work"? I wasn't concerned with anything about power levels. Although, I'm in no way "up to speed" with who beats who or who the strongest people supposedly are. I don't actually know who a lot of these people like Eternis and the OP King are, and I try to stay away from those higher levels on the power scale. Maybe the reason I do is just because it's so complicated and that's why you're trying to enforce these rules. I don't really see what these paradox rolls have to do with that though. Right now, you're putting the Forbidden Fruit of Knowledge or whatever up in REALLY clear view of everyone. And of course, that's going to get people (like Nulitor apparently) to go poking around at it.
Before I go into any more allusions and metaphors to biblical stories, I should probably ask, what exactly is a paradox roll? What counts as a paradox? According to Chaos Theory, just the act of going back in time causes paradoxes. It's basically impossible to go back in time without making a paradox.
Also, I'm kinda flattered that you think Wilson is as strong as the UOSS, but I'm going to have to disagree with that. When the UOSS was briefly on the battlefield to fight the Vord, didn't it have at least a million HP? Wilson only had 300,000 HP and at ABSOLUTE maximum power, he's as strong as 2 somewhat OP 50 post entities (I wanted to try something weird where I have technically 2 entities to act as Wilson).
So you believe you have the right to ruin literally everybody else's experience?
"Wow. You really ARE an idiot." -Flowey, 2015
Exactly it is why I am called nulitor and that I willing-fully kept the rank newbie(even through the forum automatically change your rank when you gain higher ranks) and that my avatars are always drawn in the worst way possible.
Now you're just being selfish.
GODDAMN IT
STUPID GENDERFLIP VIRUS
I was only replying to the second part of the post not the first one.
Else I believe the GM have found an way of killing all the players that at least him will enjoy because else he would never have created this rule.
Have you heard of a particular Alfred Nobel? Perhaps his story will be able to make you see some sense.
There was a man, once, named Alfred Nobel. His brother, Emil, died in an explosives-related accident. When he then invented Dynamite, a substance far safer than the conventional Nitroglycerin explosives, he imagined it being used for peaceful things, such as mining, and if I recall correctly, plant fertilizer. Then, in 1888, some newspaper erroneously thought he had died, and declared that the "Merchant of death is dead", condemning him for inventing the safer explosive. Think about that for a second.
His brother died in an explosion.
He invented a safer explosive to prevent that sort of accident.
People then used his safer explosive to kill other people in explosions.
Do you think he intended to get more people killed in explosions?
Do you think he intended to be declared a "Merchant of death"?
Do you think he intended for all of that to happen?
NO
HE DIDN'T
OR ELSE THE NOBEL PRIZE WOULD NOT EXIST
Just because the option is there for you to end the game, does not mean the creator of the game wants you to take that option. Furthermore, at least two people have shown their objections towards you trying to get a bad ending, and I have no doubt that many other people don't want DTG0 to end early, just because of your selfish desire to see it all go wrong.
GODDAMN IT
STUPID GENDERFLIP VIRUS
Rules are way more predictable than inventions.
If you do a rule that says that there is 1% chance of X happening then it means that X can happen and if you do not want it to happen then you can just add a rule which makes it can not happen and then add another if someone achieve to bypass the protection and refuse people from doing it since you are a GM and have ALL the powers.
If the inventor of dynamite had all the powers he would have invented right after his explosives a way to prevent them from hurting people or damaging properties of other humans and then he would have invented a way to stop wars.
Sigh. Honestly I think I'm just gonna leave this off with a few points.
1. We could probably push for the Terraria session's canonization, and leave, in the event that everything goes south.
2. Nobody here is likely to care about the game after a 1 is rolled, it's just throwing everything out the window even more than things have been getting thrown out(a trickle relative to this).
3. Why do we even need a bigger bad. This is excessive. Nobody wanted a bad bigger than the literal forces of the plot.
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'10-'5-'8-'11 1'-[7']-8'-7'-'3 '2-11'-2'-'9-7'
'10-'5-'3-'3 1'-[7']-'3 '10-8'-{'3}-['10]-4'-7'
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I'll say this on the paradox thing: A, I pretty much said anything could happen ALREADY and I've explained the mechanics. I am merely expositing the dangers so some idiot DOESN'T make it happen because they didn't know and should avoid it. Really, at this stage the idea of an absurdly low roll ending existence should have been the expectation at this rate.
B, The Paradox Rolls are designed to explicitly make you pay for doing something that ridiculously dumb. For most, it wouldn't be justification to make them stop playing the game, so I 'only' kill off their current RP characters and then doom existence, which still makes them feel horrible. So basically, it would punish people who think gambling for the Chibi-Serena Statue is a good idea, and obliterate the idea from HIGH orbit that you had any chance against fighting off your 'mistake' by making it stronger than the strongest beings you have to ally against (or rather, make its powerset such that fighting it at all, even for the most powerful beings you have, a ridiculous idea at best). Reasonable(ish) to prevent gamblers going nutzo over it-make the punishments just as likely as the rewards, but make the punishments far worse. Not the smoothest system but when anything can happen...
Also, I will say this: If it happens, the end of the world thing may or may not be a thing depending on circumstances, and it's DEFINITELY not immediate. If an entity rolls it while being dumb, all that means is that Entity is going to find itself a nonexistent entity very swiftly, and then the resulting 'bigger bad' will just shove off and not actually bother anyone enough to warrant a position in story from then-on.
For people like Nulitor, however, who don't care for their fellow players and/or the story enough to give that much pause, I give a different treatment. I skip that bit to straight-up ban them instead in the form of a 'paradox roll' (by which I mean I deliberately load dice to have an excuse to ban them for the destructive behavior). Nulitor, as it stands your intentions ALONE will probably get you banned from this game in a heartbeat. Outright BANNED. If you do that, and succeed, I'll just kill you and ban you on the spot (and skip ; if you keep doing it even if you dont' get a 1, you'll roll a number that isn't a 1 and yet is low enough to get you banned, and I will ban you. Either way, you doom existence because you feel like ending the game fast and I will make you pay for it. The rule is to be avoided at all costs. I put it in there as discouragement to rolling Paradoxes EVER (as clearly you saw what happens when a low roll happens...You just happened to benefit from it), AT ALL, FOR ANY REASON (except MAYBE, MAYBE, MAYBE the most dire reason you could possibly think of-LITERALLY, it's either a lucky roll or existence explodes or something THAT dire); IF such discouragement must be changed, I can certainly do so, and will in a heartbeat.
Do I make myself clear?
It is done.
http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.Jt0koblFLbz/latest
Wait, what? Tazz, why do you seem so defensive about the lore of DTG even in things that are spin offs? You wanted me to make it impossible for UserZero and Richard to ever team, so I had to code in an exception even though that happening in my little Java program would mean nothing to the actual story. Why do you have such a long post with so many capitals and italics explaining why a clearly spin off non canon story wouldn't work? You even say "I'd officially end the game there as you just up-front defied the plot[/b] and won." and also talk about this "the Black", who just sounds like power creep. Why do those sound like threats? Maybe it's just that I feel like DTG never needed an official plot and that makes it easier for people to make their own, but I think that if it's not under a GM, literally anything can go. Richard has been one shotted several times in my Hunger Games, usually by random stuff like licking his elbow. Also, in my Games, Richard and UserZero can't team with each other unless it glitches, but I left in a case where they get shipped. And I don't want to remove it.
I'm sorry if I've totally misunderstood you, but it feels like you're trying to enforce the rules of DTG even when they really shouldn't be enforced.
If you're wondering about my statement about power creep, feels like we've always just had to establish bigger and badder threats out of nowhere to get that feeling of fighting the eldritch horror. But it has already happened so many times... Richard wasn't enough, so then the big bag became Scratch, then English, then Binary, then Psi-Scratch, then the Red Dragon, then the Employer, then the Conflict in general, then finally the Shadow. It has happened so much and each time it's like 'no, this is 100% the REAL deal'. ... And it's not. Feels like just infinity+n level bad guys each time out of nowhere.
Edit-like-thing: I started this post yesterday night shortly after Tazz's first post where he seemingly struck down Piono's idea. However, then I got sick for the rest of the day. Now I have to say, why are you threatening Nulitor? You seem to want every action to make sense in the DTG 'lore' so much that you tell people how to break reality, but threaten them not to do it. Why can't you just say 'nothing happened' or 'you are not strong enough to activate this' whenever someone tries something like that? Why do you have to say "Nulitor, as it stands your intentions ALONE will probably get you banned from this game in a heartbeat. Outright BANNED". Why? It makes no sense to me...
There's a difference between a hero and a champion. A champion overcomes threats, but a hero overcomes fears.
My Best Map so farAll my maps, click here.
Then there's also a Youtube channel I'm somewhat involved in.
So every time a paradox happens, its a 1 in 10000 chance of game over? I hope the timeline shunt (which should make this the new main timeline if I manage to take down Richard) I was promised actually occurs, or there would be a 1/10000 chance this was all for naught.
Okay tazz, the reason why I put Eternis after the agents of the Conflict is because The Red Dragon was stated to be the most powerful (MAYBE weaker than The Shadow, but even then, that brings up other issues). Engie is stronger than it by a fair margin (as comparing engie being able to just CONSUME entire universes and having the Mainframe) while Eternis was established as being many times stronger than engie, barring his entry to a section of the Void with passive defenses. He is the physical incarnation of infinity, and measuring that power in terms of the turrets is sort of problematic because the Chuck Norris Turret, the single most powerful turret ever, was only equal to Chuck Norris until upgraded, and that's WITH the advantage of being specifically designed to fight him. The Shadow is roughly equal in power to the Secret of the Void, who in turn stronger than the anti-chuck norris turret, which, as we have already explored in DTG2, is weaker than The Incarnate, which, running under the power of the Red Dragon, fails to be stronger than Engie.
Additionally, Project Binary went down to an attack that failed to kill Lord English, even weakened. Eternis is, well, to put it extremely mildly, MUCH more powerful than him. Comparing things by how they actually worked in game, Eternis is strong enough that, with the full backing of both the Narrative and the Conflict, he would far surpass the entire group of the Agents of Conflict and Agents of the Narrative together.
This is just talking Eternis. Admittedly, right now, the fight between the OP King and the agents of the Conflict would be fairly even, since neither the Conflict nor the Narrative want him running around (given that he almost blew the War of the Dark Carnival into a paradox powerful enough to instantly unleash Black at his full strength) and the seals keep him at GREATLY reduced power. In terms of raw power without anyone interfering, he’s slightly stronger than Eternis right now, but he’s greatly limited by the Narrative and Conflict in terms of directly interacting with things.
Anyways, I’m arguing this for a reason, not just to argue. We all agreed near the end of DTG2 that we SERIOUSLY had to stop the power creep. I can’t retcon the OP King OR the Author without a crap-ton of extra bother that I don’t have time for as of right now, and I’m not going to hand it over to anyone else, because that would most likely end up invalidating important parts of my backstories, and for reasons mentioned with Engie, I just flat out CAN’T lower Eternis’s power level anymore, since he’s already been established to be beyond even the power scale of universe eaters.
I have the OP King and the Author set in chains to keep them from wreaking havoc on the plot, and Eternis… I’ll figure out something for him eventually. It hasn’t really seemed urgent since the Narrative and Conflict both possess enough power to deal with him should it become necessary.
But even below that, Engie and Unity are top-tier characters, and intended to remain that way. We’ve had way too much power scale inflation (probably mainly my fault, I will admit to that) already, we need to try and keep the power scale down to reasonable levels as much as is possible at this point.
Hence the reason why the OP King and Eternis won't be making appearances in any game in the near future. (as in, none of the ones that are currently canonical)
As for Black... well, I think I'll leave that alone. If twin and TT2000 are okay with it, I don't have any issues with it, since it gives us a reason for WHY paradoxes are so terrible, even if I don’t like introducing another stupidly overpowered character.
And as for the paradox scale… I’d like to state that I don’t really like the Chibi-Serena Statue instantly giving you full control over canon, I mean, you probably won’t abuse it, but it still makes me uncomfortable.
As to pit and FBSN, those are both really good ideas, I like the dialogue, and most of the attacks, bar the completely impossible to avoid ones. (FBSN, the Off Waves are dodgeable in Smash Bros, and instantly setting their health to 1 outside of those very final fights just doesn’t make sense to me.)
Oh, and ire. making the terraria session canonical is a bad reason for the same reason why I say we should leave Eternis up there as "If you're anywhere near as powerful as this guy, you've done something wrong."
DTG Co Labs
Nope, sorry guys, no Destroy the Godmodder relevant stuff here...
At least, not yet.
First off (Piono and Talist) Can I just say the Paradox thing was merely a minor thing for the most part? Most players won't do this deliberately, and those who do are bound to not affect you because they only care for themselves. This is practically theoretical-if not ACTUALLY theoretical. For this reason, the Black is non-canon until the hyper-unlikely roll that I'm deliberately trying to make sure doesn't happen because of some jerks. On that note: I WILL say the Black's theoretical abilities are NOT supposed to be power creep: They're more accurately designed that his particular abilities make almost any method of killing him impossible while him killing you is extremely likely...And almost nothing else. I won't specify what that exactly means.
2nd (Talist, kind of Piono): I admit that I am being overly-sensitive about the canon wholly. I also admit that the power scale is out of control...Which is EXACTLY WHY I'm so sensetive about it. All the power levels soaring up to infinity is just dumb, Talist you are dead right, so I'm starting to get...Antsy about anything about that and trying to solidify canon power levels and then crunch them together so that the power scale is not just more believable, but also closer together so we can feasibly have the Godmodder take on some of these monstrosities in head-on combat.
To clarify, the power levels go something like this: The Black Monolith (Word of Twin says it's the only legitimately omnipotent thing in existence and could erase the Conflict and Narrative from existence if it would destroy reality in the process to do so...It's just ultra-passive, so thank goodness for that for once), the Conflict at full power, the Narrative, the current state of the Conflict, <MASSIVE GAP OF POWER INSERTED HERE>, Secret of the Void (CREATED the Void and thus most of the DTG world as we know it, and would have out-powered the Shadow if not for a pair of snakes), The Shadow/Red Dragon/The Few (all roughly equal in my mind: The Red Dragon didn't instantly obliterate the Universe for the same reason Engie couldn't do so at all, the lovely OP Scale...And he was empowering the Incarnate AT THE SAME TIME, and Engie couldn't even eat all of it, just part, and this is all after being freshly uncanned and consistently nerfed by Talist;), The Author, Project Binary full-power, The Employer/Full-power Binary Prime, the OP King, Binary Prime in his DTG0 state, the OP King in his post-DTG2 state, <Small gap of power>, Eternis, Full-power Engie/Psi (Bit shaky on this much, but Psi-Scratch DID kill Engie off along with everyone else...With the Disc and the Fez. I'm putting them as equal here just to show they're close enough), Omega-Plus Godmodders, Fast Eddy in TvTropes, Notch in Minecraft/Unity (if fully united), the rest of the Godmodding ranks in the obvious order, Herobrine/Arch-Sues/First Guardians (between Alpha Plus and Alpha in terms of raw power-also I am referecing Terraria for the Arch-Sues and Mary Sues in general, but they're (ironically) an interesting concept for DTG given the setting and wouldn't inherently obliterate canon), non-Arch sues/Alpha-rank godmodders/Descendants when fighting Omega-Plus Godmodders/Ancestors, Wilson/The UOSS/Any other given high-power high-relevance entity who wasn't already mentioned, and then most everything else. This doesn't include a few others that aren't explicitly characters (IE the First Block and the Disc of Mojang) or some characters during some situations (The Incarnate, Godmodder Soul, Red-Dragon Richard), and definiitely didn't add characters I couldn't get a bead on (The Oracle of the Void), but really this gives a sense of position for everything as far as I can tell, and I'm reasonably unbiased.
JUST from the size of that list, and that's just everything tying with the descendants and above and the bit immediately below it, do you think I have a SMALL reason to make sure this keeps under a semblance of control? Much less the fact that the LOWEST tier on that list with actual names on it includes the almighty UOSS, which chewed through entities like paper? And that I rank Wilson, the fox that you (Talist) deliberately left somewhat under-powered compared to the actual descendants in a sense, EQUAL to the UOSS? One of my minor goals for DTG0 is to improve the power of Omega-Pluses explicitly so that I can justify bringing them, the other godmodders AND the Descendants by proxy up enough that some of those guys AREN'T nigh-invincible-looking and make the idea of the Godmodder being the ACTUAL biggest threat in existence look legitimate. Ignoring that, one OTHER thing I'm going to do is that, with anything I intend to introduce (meaning The Black and the Chibi-Serena Statue do not count, though putting the Black on there would be kind of harder than you realize), it won't proceed <small gap in power> with exactly one exception. Indeed, I think the <small gap in power> area is the power level we shouldn't breach for a standard in player-controlled characters, and if it happens, it should NOT be done lightly.
3rd (Talist): I told people what would happen as a DISCLAIMER and a reason WHY you should NOT roll paradoxes. I didn't tell people DO it, in fact, that was pretty much the opposite of what I intended. People doing it carelessly (IE TwinBuilder during the Uncle Grandpa summon) could roll the dreaded one, and cue the jerk swooping in and everyone going into rage mode at me because that wasn't obvious enough with this. That and I already said pretty much that on the memo already, so I needed to get that out to the public. No fair to be exclusive, after all. Of course, when Nulitor swooped in to start saying he'd roll paradoxes explicitly to get a 1 to 'speed up' the game (and an argument broke out because of it) you bet your bottom dollar that I had a reason to step in and set in straight what I intended. After all, if he actually did it, that would basically ruin the game for everyone for his own 'amusement' as that basically means everyone's going to die at the end of the game after potentially WINNING, ruining the whole thing, basically the highest form of Trolling possible. THAT is ban-worthy in my opinion (possibly even from the whole forums), and I needed to get that clear. That's not to say I don't like seeing the occasional high/low Paradox roll to screw with game dynamics, but I certainly do NOT like it when people are out to screw everyone over in the process for something that could barley even be called their amusement.
4th (Piono): Can I just go out of my way to say this? Most of them going beyond the <small gap in power> DO in fact fall under Too Strong to Live, even by DTG's absurd power standards and despite the fact most of them are Orcus On Their Thrones or Sealed Evil in a Can in their own ways. Not just your own, but several of the others as well. I think only ONE or two of them at that level is appropriate for bigger bads. It's to the point where, if I can find a legitimate excuse to kill off most of them (and all things considered with enough charge/a specific paradox roll I realistically could without retconning them), I would do so without hesitation despite their lack of direct impact. That is how bad it's gotten. It's a situation that I don't want to add fire to at this point. Eternis is lower than your expectations for a reason (outside of the ones I already gave in proving the Red Dragon is incredibly powerful): This game has broken the concept of infinity that badly. Step back and appreciate how bad it is. I again state that anything above <small gap in power> is probably too powerful for this game in such massive amounts.
Keep in mind this is ALL with the existence of the OP Scale. Piono, the OP Scale does NOT in fact justify the existence of those things on the basis that 'the Narrative will stop them.' This is without the Narrative/Conflict intervention going on for the most part. It's still that bad. And this is discounting ALL metapowers, aka the powers that screw with other powers, that a few of us have. If there was ever a reason to canonize Terraria, it's because the higher player power equates to a stronger Godmodder, meaning the power levels are pushed up, meaning my previously-stated goal of getting the Omega-Plus Godmodders stronger in relationship to everything else is furthered.
I do agree that if people reach Eternis-level power, something's gone wrong. Going beyond that is probably where I'll start having to nope them for power level scaling.
Also, yeah I would be concerned about that as well-as such it will only ever be explicitly to do exactly what I said and nothing else. it might not be taking the form of CSS for those reasons (definitely will if Generic rolls it, but only for brick joke potential on the fact he 'made' one so early on), but whatever happens it will certainly be extremely beneficial for whoever rolled it (not like I support Paradox rolls constantly. I put in the 1 result to prevent reckless gambling.)
While I'd hate to be that guy, I do have to mention that, actually... I never have gone full power, with the exception of the one time the OP Scale let me do it because I was doing it in a comb rave, and even then that was heavily nerfed, as proven by the Incarnate being... somewhat smaller than an entire universe. I'd also like to point out that, because Limbo wasn't immediately filled up with a fatass Metal/Crystal Universe Eater body directly after PsiScratch went and killed the peoples, that means it's safe to assume he didn't kill all of me.
GODDAMN IT
STUPID GENDERFLIP VIRUS
Limbo is (probably) an infinite plane, and dialogue suggested other Universe Eaters were in it. And a lot of them at that. It's safe to say you probably could fit ALL of you in there if the need arose-ain't arguing those points, I could see it going either way for a lot of reasons with no real 'tie' outcome feasible, which is why I put you equal to Psi. But see, that's really just putting it into perspective more than anything. By all standards in any other canon you would basically be the strongest being alive no-doubts even with the OP Scale tying you down. Eternis is several times stronger than you (or at least, the concept of infintity could be forced to a recently-devoured meal, causing you to explode and die of overeating)...And THAT guy is the absolute maximum of what I consider a 'non-canon breaking' character that won't need actual nerfs beyond the OP scale.
Just step back and look at the madness that is DTG from that statement alone.
I won't argue about Limbo being too small, but... remember how, while in Limbo, we were all pretty much interacting with each other all the same, blah blah blah usual business pick a random flower?
Yeah, kinda hard to do that if there's a size discrepancy. It'd make more sense if just a part of me ended up in limbo and the rest was like, "...Uh, guys? Where the hell did that shard that went to Godcraft go?" from an interaction standpoint.
GODDAMN IT
STUPID GENDERFLIP VIRUS
(...I suggested making the Terraria session canonical?)
The dream that you've never dreamed is suddenly about to FLOWER.
Chair-City? (Ind) (Tra)
SCP-2317 is probably somewhere in the power scales, but no one knows where (right now he is just eating whatever low-level godmodders he can eat outside the scope of the battle), and he is unlikely to show up again anyways.
After two weeks of writing, or rather, a week and a half of doing nothing and a few days of quite a bit of writing, the second chapter of Insurrection is complete.
In which plans rise and fall: http://s15.zetaboards.com/DTG_Forums/topic/8101490/1/#post8071356
I guess my point is why do there need to even be these so called 'paradox rolls'? What point do they serve? Why can't we just say "it doesn't work"? I wasn't concerned with anything about power levels. Although, I'm in no way "up to speed" with who beats who or who the strongest people supposedly are. I don't actually know who a lot of these people like Eternis and the OP King are, and I try to stay away from those higher levels on the power scale. Maybe the reason I do is just because it's so complicated and that's why you're trying to enforce these rules. I don't really see what these paradox rolls have to do with that though. Right now, you're putting the Forbidden Fruit of Knowledge or whatever up in REALLY clear view of everyone. And of course, that's going to get people (like Nulitor apparently) to go poking around at it.
Before I go into any more allusions and metaphors to biblical stories, I should probably ask, what exactly is a paradox roll? What counts as a paradox? According to Chaos Theory, just the act of going back in time causes paradoxes. It's basically impossible to go back in time without making a paradox.
Also, I'm kinda flattered that you think Wilson is as strong as the UOSS, but I'm going to have to disagree with that. When the UOSS was briefly on the battlefield to fight the Vord, didn't it have at least a million HP? Wilson only had 300,000 HP and at ABSOLUTE maximum power, he's as strong as 2 somewhat OP 50 post entities (I wanted to try something weird where I have technically 2 entities to act as Wilson).
There's a difference between a hero and a champion. A champion overcomes threats, but a hero overcomes fears.
My Best Map so farAll my maps, click here.
Then there's also a Youtube channel I'm somewhat involved in.